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Letes des Wisconsinîs waloncåzants
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Oteur Messaedje
lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: lon 06 mås, 2023 12:32:35    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

I "cropped-in" Walloon name of cities. But as two people often speak together, it is difficult to have a good result. I 'll try to improve them and see if Wikipedia accepts them as "too small for copyrighting".

"Luxembourg" and "Rivière du Loup" are said in the French pronunciation. Maybe "Rivire del Leu" was a re-walloonizing" by Vondertie.

Both pronunciations of "Tchimpion / Tchampion" also exist in Wallonia.

Maximmolén is a remarkable name with germanic structure (Maxim's mill ?). This is noticeable in the polemical question if Germanic-like composition names were still "alive" in 20th century Walloon. But is it Maxim molén (Maxim's mill ?) OR maximolén (great mill) OR Maxi d' Mélin (Maxi from Mélin; Mélin, one of the village Wisconsin Walloons came from).

I will make one or two Walloon Wikipedia articles on those villages.

Kind regards.
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lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: mie 15 mås, 2023 11:09:32    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Citåcion:
Steve

thanks to what you have on https://wa.wiktionary.org/wiki

I started creating a google map... mostly to help anyone not from the area get an idea where these places are... and I have been matching up how the Walloon speakers say it to the spelling convention you use,


https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1FDBOLXwKUHHEP9iUHtHVkCBEmDw7xh4&ll=44.71971430318689%2C-88.21263032327832&z=8


Very nice.

I used it in the development of Walloon Wiki page of Champion (your's)

https://wa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchampion-el-Wisconsene

For recordings of the village names in your audio file, have you:
* the name of the person who performed the recording
* the year it was made.

A bénrade [see you soon]

Citåcion:
Steve
Now I am happy with the Champion page. I figured out how to add an
image. I also reworded things a bit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion,_Wisconsin

_________________
Li ci ki n' a k' on toû n' vike k' on djoû.


Candjî pol dierin côp pa lucyin, li lon 27 mås, 2023 14:44:50; candjî 1 feye
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lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: lon 27 mås, 2023 13:35:45    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Steve lampereur:
Those recording were made in 2018. Theresa I am related to. The other lady I have an idea who it is, but I am waiting for an answer to see if my memory is correct.

wa-wis_Brussele (Brussels) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander
wa-wis_Djanete (Jonet) - Not a walloon speaker & this is said in English
wa-wis_Foresvile (Forestville) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander
wa-wis_Granbai (Green Bay) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander
wa-wis_Martchant (Duvall) - Arlene (De Champs) Jadin
wa-wis_Namêr (Namur) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander
wa-wis_Rozêre (Wisconsene) - Arlene (De Champs) Jadin

I believe Jonet would be said without the T. (The family traces to Perwez).. Its been a long time since I've heard anyone say it that (correct) way though.
Since Tonet was an administrative mistake, its been pronounced as any English speaker would, with the trailing T.

Prior to the establishement of the Church, I think is where Aux Flamants comes into play. The community was actually a pretty good mix of Flemish and Walloons. (My mothers Walloon ancestors settled there.)

As for Algoma, I don't really think any Belgians initally settled there. A generation or two later as folks spread out, we find Al Vandertie and Josie Wautlet living there.

Since Algoma is where Kewaunee Counties offices are, the early settlers had to go there to pay taxes, record land purchases, etc so I guess that's why they had a Walloon name for it.

I like what your doing on Wikipedia, so a few months back I started adding bits and pieces to our communities. It seems more recent generations are less likely to go to a library and research things. I guess if they cannot find an answer online they are okay without knowing. I am hoping this is just an American problem, but I fear its not.

You may also be interested in these vidoes, which contain spoken Walloon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPtU4B7QPyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz1PHgcLwK4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4cgcX1lvwM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woC3H_G-mnw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf2SdD_AUPg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BD_do6oFBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLIrqCerzIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T18jH42CxAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeHMMdaXNf4

Response
Thank you for all the information. I will use it progressively in the Walloon Wiki.
I just wrote about Walhain
https://wa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walin-el-Wisconsene
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lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: mår 28 mås, 2023 18:31:28    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Citåcion:
mi

A question: Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander was the speaker or the one who recorded the file ? Or both ?

Kind regards.


The people listed below are the speakers. I'll have to ask who was
making the recording .
I guess for simplicity we could just say the Belgian Heritage Center
is who made them, as thats who provided them to me.

wa-wis_Brussele (Brussels) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander (2018)
wa-wis_Djanete (Jonet) - Not a walloon speaker & this is said in English (2018)
wa-wis_Foresvile (Forestville) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander (2018)
wa-wis_Granbai (Green Bay) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander (2018)
wa-wis_Martchant (Duvall) - Arlene (De Champs) Jadin (2018)
wa-wis_Namêr (Namur) - Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander (2018)
wa-wis_Rozêre (Wisconsene) - Arlene (De Champs) Jadin (2018)
Booyah - Arlene (De Champs) Jadin (2019)

On the map (not finished), I consulted:
https://dtw.walon.org/index.php
Thanks for this. I am now trying to explain the spelling rationale to
a few people here.

Recently I've been reviewing the videos and making a list of the
speakers and trying to make a list. Those marked with a "D", sadly
are now deceased.
I'll be bringing this list to a meeting to see who else others can
remember of recent times.
I know there are others still living, (I hope) that I simply don't
know who they are, and haven't been recorded.

Then there are a fair number, still living like my aunt, and other
younger ones (like the Chaudoir siblings) who simply haven't spoken in
a number of years, and are likely relucant to do so.

One that comes to mind, is Merle Jeanquart, who is in his late 70's.
He grew up in Namur, WI. And has been living in Green Bay ever since.
He make many meetings,
and generally understands what is being said, and uses a scattering of
sayings (which I will work with him on recording/writing down). But
if you put him on the spot or ask him
how something would be said, he cannot recall much.


Margaret (LeRoy) Monfils [b 1924] D
Ervin Jadin [b 1924] D
Arlene (DeChamps) Jadin [b 1931]
David Chaudoir [b 1928]
Francis Jauquet [b 1926] D
Arlin Monfils [b 1944]
Harlan Mercier [b 1938]
Emily (Jeanquart) Dhuey [b 1924] D
Gerald Englebert [b 1941]
Emma (Mallien) Hayot [b 1922]
Auguste Hayot [b 1934] D
Alfred John Vandertie [b 1910] D
Josephine (LeGrave) Wautlet [b 1915] D
Louis DeJardin [b 1921] D
Clifford Abts [b. 1927]
Christine (Granius) Chaudoir [b. 1939]
Theresa (Gerondale) Alexander [b. 1938]
Jim Lampereur [b. 1932] D
Harry Chaudoir [b. 1926] D
Margaret (Bader) Rueckl [b.1932]
-
Philip Chaudoir [b. 1949]
Mary (Chaudoir) Moran [b. 1964]
_________________
Li ci ki n' a k' on toû n' vike k' on djoû.
Rivni al copete
Vey li profil di l' uzeu Evoyî on messaedje privé Evoyî èn emile Viziter l' waibe di l' uzeu Jabber
lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: mår 28 mås, 2023 18:34:18    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

f you desire more information on our Walhain, a good source on the
Streyckman family is in Antoine De Smet's publication:

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL37203335M/La_communaut%C3%A9_belge_du_nord-est_du_Wisconsin

In that text Antoine De Smet, wrote:

"Here is another typical example of recruiting. It comes to us from the region of Walhain-Saint-Paul (canton of Perwez). On June 15, 1855 one John Joseph Streyckmans of this canton left Antwerp for Wisconsin.
Some months later he returned to Belgium. An American land company in the region of Green Bay had hired him to recruit emigrants for the Green Bay region of Wisconsin. This company had paid for his voyage and and without doubt promised further remuneration. Once back in Belgium he developed active propaganda in the Walhain-Saint-Paul region and succeeded in recruiting some 250 emigrants who took passage with the Adolphe Strauss Company. For further recompense the Antwerp shipowner paid for the return trip to America of himself and his family. He received In addition, the sum of five francs for each emigrant. On the 18th of June 1856 he returned to Wisconsin with the emigrants he had recruited."

I also have a source published here about his involvement with St Amand's Church, which I have attached.

There is also info in this recent newsletter:
http://www.belgianheritagecenter.org/App_Uploads_Docs/Events/2023-03.pdf

Since you likely have less hoops to jump though, having a specific version of wikipedia for Belgium. I figured I'd pass these snippets along. Sadly most of this sort of thing is deemed insignificant to the English Wikipedia version. I may try my luck creating an entry on the Adele Brise apparition, but that is pretty well documented online else where.
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lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: lon 25 set, 2023 19:55:31    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Citåcion:
Kelly

Attached you will find a draft of a chapter that is going into a book I am working on about Wisconsin Walloon. This outlines the current draft of the spelling system that we have worked out with community members. We also have a publication that describes the process of putting this system together, which you can find here.

(djel metrè bénrade sol sierveu).

Hope you are well. Take care,
Kelly

Kelly Biers, Ph.D. (he/him)
Associate Professor of French
Department of Languages and Literatures
University of North Carolina at Asheville
243 Whitesides Hall, CPO 2860
828.232.2440

Citåcion:
Steve
Is what Kelly shared useful? What I requested was the written samples he collected from the Walloons speakers here, years back.

Oct 1st is our club picnic, and I have invited the Walloon speakers.


Kelly's ortography: far far away from classical Walloon, either Feller-based, either Rifondou-based. But better than nothing.

Il could be interesting to have a small text written with that orthography. For example, this:

https://wa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchampion-el-Wisconsene

The same name (Tchimpion) as pronounced classically:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wa_Tchimpion.ogg

If there are Walloon-speakers at your Oct 1st club picnic, it would be great to have some words recorded (i.e. name of Walloon villages, and other usual names as appearing in that article).

Thank you for information I 'll publish on the "Berdelaedjes".[/quote]
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Li ci ki n' a k' on toû n' vike k' on djoû.
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Vey li profil di l' uzeu Evoyî on messaedje privé Evoyî èn emile Viziter l' waibe di l' uzeu Jabber
lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: vén 08 dec, 2023 23:43:36    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Citåcion:
Steve Lempereur

I took a couple photos if the word list and shared that with one Belgian linguist. He is working on a simular project that includes audio as well as the words in English.

He'd been asking me for a while of words that we have here that they don't, as he'd like to know about those.. I think the only real way to discover those is to communicate more with the Belgians.

He is wondering more about the project here, how many words have been recorded? etc. He mentions that there are no earthquakes in Belgium, they don't have that word, etc.

I am including a few people in this email from Belgium; linguists and other people working on the common goal of preserving the language.


Thank you for information about the project.
Citåcion:
Steve He mentions that there are no earthquakes in Belgium, they don't have that word.


Can you inform the workers that there were (small) earthquakes in Wallonia. Remarkable is that a very old one was reported in the second oldest text in Walloon, li "Paskeye so les lotchets" (1640). It is named "hosmint d' tere" (hossî = to shake).
https://wa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paskeye_so_les_lotchets

Nowadays, walloon speakers would rather say as in French "tronnmint d' tere" (tronner = to tremble)

There is a third word, stombixhmint (stombi = to shake), quoted in Nivele dictionary
https://wa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mot%C3%AE_d%27_Nivele

There is a page on earthquakes in Walloon Wiktionary.
https://wa.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosmint_d%27_tere

We can also use the scientific term "seyisse" (seism), like in that text:https://rifondou.walon.org/rascrauwes.html#seyisses

Sincerely yours
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lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: vén 08 dec, 2023 23:46:34    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Citåcion:
Steve Lempereur

Gentlemen,
For whatever reason I couldn't get Rebecca Derenne to further explain the project, so I'll try myself.

Kelly Biers is the linguistics professor he's working on a book that describes the basics of the history, pronunciation, vocabulary, and grammar of Wisconsin Walloon. Its audience is anyone who wants to know about the language in general, whether or not they intend to learn it.

He hopes it will be helpful for folks wanting to learn the language, but it's more of a reference than a learning tool. His first three chapters are attached and he is seeking feed back. (kbiers@unca.edu)

This is mostly aimed for an English audience and to have an English like way to write things.

Then there is the Belgian Heritage Center recording project. There are nearly 3,000 sentences that have been recorded modeling the Glossika method. And we hope to have that many individual words recorded. But that is still a work in progress as many of the words from that model don't exist, so there is a lot of substitution and revising the script going on yet. This was suggested under the guidance of one of Rebecca's acquaintances, Vinny Champeau. He has a course for teaching Spanish and a website. https://ankimaster.com/

His course is modeled after concepts in the book "Fluent Forever" by Gavriel Wyner The plan is to develop something similar for Walloon.

I'm about half way with breaking the bulk recordings into the individual sentences. After that and our speakers review them, I'm going to recommend sharing the recordings with Baptiste Frankinet for IPA transcription. But we will likely have another discussion when we get to that point.

_________________
Li ci ki n' a k' on toû n' vike k' on djoû.
Rivni al copete
Vey li profil di l' uzeu Evoyî on messaedje privé Evoyî èn emile Viziter l' waibe di l' uzeu Jabber
lucyin



Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3661
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok

MessaedjeDate: lon 05 fev, 2024 22:59:03    Sudjet: Responde tot citant

Citåcion:
Steve Lempereur, président de l' Belgian Heritage Center Wisconsin

Sorry this took so long.

I am sharing it with a few other folks from your country that might be interested. This is how she writes it. She is reviewing the Biers proposal and will try to write something else following that standard at a later date.

The speaker is Theresa Gerondale Alexander, age 85. She gives permission to redistribute the text and recording.


the North wind and the Sun in Wisconsin Walloon is on line.

https://atlas.limsi.fr/?tab=am

direct audio
https://atlas.limsi.fr/sounds/wallon_du_Wisconsin.mp3

Thank you again.

---
The re-writing in Feller orthography is not easy. You know both vowels "i" (= English ee / ea) and "u" (German ü) tend to be undifferentiated in many areas where the Belgian Americans came from (now the province of Walloon Brabant). But they remained clear in other areas (Province of Namur). So these influences can work differently in "Belgian" [=walon] pronunciation. Sometimes the vowel is undifferentiated (then written ë, sometimes it is more like "i", sometimes more like "u").

Here is the Feller transcription I wrote from the audio.

Of course, it is far different from the system you are experimenting over there.

----

Lë vint del Nôr èt l’ solia



Lë vint del Nôr èt l’ solia ont yu one dispute. I vlîn’ soyu li kén k’ estot lë pus fwârt. Dë ç’ tins k’ i s’ disputîn’ fwârt, on voyajeûr a passé dins l’ vôye, avou së capot autoû d’ li.

« Faut k’ on seûye contins » lë solia a dit. « Lë cénk ki pôrot fé lë voyajeûr tirer s’ capot est l’ pus fwârt. » « C’est bin », lë vint del Nôr a grulé.

Tot d’ sûte, lë vint del Nôr soflé dèl fwârt frëde air conte lë voyajeûr. Avou l’ prëmîne frède air sël voyajeûr, lë voyajeûr a rëbotné s’ capot. Dëpës kë l’ vint sofleûve, dëpës kë l’ voyajeûr tënët së capot conte li. Lë vint a soflé fwârt conte lë voyajeûr. Mins lë voyajeûr n’ a nén tiré s’ capot. I l’ a satchî conte li dëpës.

Adon, lë solia a lû one miète. Èt l’ voyajeûr a dësbotné së capot, èt i l’ a leyî pinde su së spale.

Du pus fwârt kë l’ solia lûjeûve, du pus tchôd ku l’ voyajeûr aveûve. Èt lu, il a tiré së calote, èt il a froté s’ front. Èt lu a stî couru dins lë lombe dë l’aube k’ estot dël costé dël vôye.

C’est fait.
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