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Berdelaedjes
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Messaedje |
Scribus electronicus
Date d' arivêye: 2024-03-30
Messaedjes: 503
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 Date: mår 29 oct, 2024 14:24:54 Sudjet: Côde sipårdaedje Wisconsene |
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Sereut i possibe po li spårdaedje d' emantchî on côde {{WWis}} {{WW}} ?
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Araedjî waloneu prete a rvindjî si mancî lingaedje |
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Scribus electronicus
Date d' arivêye: 2024-03-30
Messaedjes: 503
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| Date: mår 29 oct, 2024 22:20:46 Sudjet: |
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Dj' a rovyî ossu d' endè atåvler onk po les definixhas. Pår k' i gn a kécfeyes des sinses prôpes å Wisconsene.
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Araedjî waloneu prete a rvindjî si mancî lingaedje |
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lucyin
Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3952
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok
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Scribus electronicus
Date d' arivêye: 2024-03-30
Messaedjes: 503
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| Date: dju 12 mås, 2026 14:00:46 Sudjet: |
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Dit-st i Scribus Electronicus
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Dear Steve, dear professor Biers,
One year and half ago, there was a little debate in a reunion of Walloon rifondeus to determine whether we should consider the Wisconsin Walloon as a variant of the Central Walloon or as a different variant.
It is quiet important for us because in order to class the various sources of dictionaries and other list of words, we use codes with a letter relied with a dialect :
E for Eastern
E1, E2, E3, E4, etc
C for Central
C1, C2, C3, C4, etc.
S for Southern
S1, S2, S3, S4, etc.
O fort Western
O1, O2, O3, O4, etc.
R for rifondou
R1, R2, R3, R4, etc.
G for general Walloon
G1, G2, G3, etc.
You can see here a very long list :
https://lucyin.walon.org/diccionairaedje/djiveye400.html
We use these codes in order to reference the different variants on the Wiktionary
==== {{H|ortografeyes}} ====
{{Orto
| poirté = E203
| poirter = C9a, R9,R10,R11,R13,R15
| porter = O3
| portér = FO94
| pôrter = O2,O90
| pôrtér = FO94, SpO1 p. 42
| poûrter = O4
| poûrtér = FO94
| pwartè = C8,C13
| pwarter = C9 (a « spale » et dvins bråmint des mots « {{loyén|sopwarter|ling=wa-fel}} »\, « {{loyén|r(i)pwarter|ling=wa-fel}} »\, evnd.)
| pwârter = C9
| pwârtér = FO94
| pwèrter = E1,E165
| {{loyén|spoirté|croejh=Vi|ling=wa-vsis}} (''s' poirter'') = E178
}}
and the DTW (diccionaire di tot l' walon).
poirter [C9a,R9,R11,R13,R15]; pwarter [C9]; pwartè [C8,C13]; poûrter [O4]; poirté [E203]; pwârter [C9]; pwèrter [E1,E165]; pôrter [O2,O90]; porter [O3]; pwârtér [FO94]; poûrtér [FO94]; pôrtér [FO94]; portér [FO94] / (s' poirter); spoirté [E178]
After some discussions, it has been decided that the Wisconsin Walloon should be regarded as a variant of the Central Walloon and not as a new category.
That's why the first source of Wisconsin Walloon, a list of words of Leonard Lampreur, was ranked as C74.
I did not finish it, but there are already about two hundred words of this list on the wiktionary :
https://wa.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?search=C74&title=Sipeci%C3%A5s:Cweri&ns0=1
Although it wasn't my opinion to rank it as C central model, I respect entirely the decision which was made collectively.
However, I lately found new elements that could relaunch the debate.
Indeed, as Wisconsin Walloon sources are increasing, I am wondering if it would be not better to ask the Wisconsin Walloon themselves how they would define themselves.
Creating a new special category could also facilitate the categorisation of Wisconsin Walloon resources for people that are looking for it specifically. If, on the contrary, you judge it unnecessary, it is as this is an equally conceivable possibility.
As long as we strive to provide content that intends to meet people's expectations as best as possible, feel free to tell us what you think about it.
I don't intend to impose or even to suggest what should be done, but just know your point of view on this matter that concerns you.
I added Mr. Mahin in a copy of this message in order to let him give his own point of view on this matter.
Truly yours
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Dit-st i Lucyin
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Por mi, c' est kine. Mins c' est l' veur ki les djins d' låvå nos pôrent dire cwè. Mins, end a-t i co, des cåzeus ? D' èn ôte des costés, les rcwereus savèt i les pondants et les djondants des categoreyes ? Ki ça våye come ça vout, i våt mî s' arinner po n' nén aè deus sistinmes diferins. Dj' elzî va scrire ene pitite sacwè e l' inglès. Av atôtchî ossu Pablo (k' esteut dins les decideus)?
Personnaly, I do not mind (categorization in Central Walloon or in a diferent category "Wi"). But it is better to communicate to know each other's systems.
Sincerely yours.
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Dit-st K. Biers
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Greetings, and thank you for including me in the conversation.
I will ultimately defer to Steve and the Wisconsin Walloon community, but my initial thought is that it would be nice to have its own designation. One of the advantages I see to this is that the Wisconsin Walloon community, in collaboration with myself and a small research group, has recently developed its own orthography that makes it much more accessible for English-speaking learners of Walloon. It also makes it easier to develop new resources (for example, the Belgian Heritage Center is now at work making a website dedicated to the Walloon language in Wisconsin). As you say, it could be very nice to have these new resources grouped together under a "Wi" designation, and it would then be clearer why those resources have such different spellings than others in the Central Walloon category.
Of course, linguistically speaking, it is very accurate to consider Wisconsin Walloon as a variant of Central Walloon. Actually, it's most accurate to say that varieties of Wisconsin Walloon are related to at least two varieties of Central Walloon (for example, both [pwɛ̃] and [pɑ̃j] are attested variants of "bread," and I believe both are attested in different home regions of Belgian emigrants to Wisconsin). So, there isn't necessarily one Wisconsin Walloon, but until we can get a better handle on what kinds of variation have existed and whether those align with certain areas on the peninsula, it's perhaps helpful to give the region one designation of its own.
Steve, do you want to consult with some folks in the area and see what they think?
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Dit-st i S. Lampreur
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I think it would be beneficial for it to have its own designation. I know there are a few words that people disagree on. And I have heard from people in Belgium for example that when they'd hear people here speak, it sounded very much like how the people speak in those communities their ancestors came from. I live in Green Bay and work a later shift so its not as easy to interface with people on these matters in the Door Peninsula, but I can ask. There is a dwindling sample size remaining and other than some of the oral interviews the historical society made decades ago I am not sure how one would further analyze it all.
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Araedjî waloneu prete a rvindjî si mancî lingaedje |
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| Rivni al copete |
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lucyin
Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-07
Messaedjes: 3952
Eplaeçmint: Sidi Smayil, Marok
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| Date: lon 15 djn, 2026 14:56:27 Sudjet: |
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novea limero sol djivêye des motîs
C75 Biers, Kelly, Boojoo! An Introduction to Wisconsin Walloon (audiobook) 2026
https://wisconsinwalloon.org/audiobook/
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Dåvide
I m' shonne ki les djins do Wisconsene avént ptchî d' aveur ene categoreye da zels foû del djivêye do walon do mitan.
A m' shonnance, on lzès divreut shure po troes råjhons pol moens. D' on costé, come Kelly Biers, sacwants Walons do Wisconsene djåzént li walon do Coûtchant, di l' ôte, çoula n' a pont d' sinse do riwaitî des mots inglès come s' il estént del redjion do Mitan. Pol rawete, adon k' il eployèt on sistinme ortografike aspoyî so l' inglès, çoula aidreut les lijheus a n' nén lére les mots avou les rîles do sistinme feller ou do rfondou.
Amiståvmint |
dji vou bén. Dj' a rlomé C74 et C75 Wi1 et Wi2 dins l' djivêye des motîs.
https://lucyin.walon.org/diccionairaedje/djiveye400.html#Wisconsene
Po C74, gn a dpus d' 150 rahoucas dins l' DTW. Si Pablo a on robot, i les sait candjî otomaticmint a Wi1
Po C75, dji n' aveu co metou ki "copixhe"; dji l' a rcandjî. On n' voet nén les ortografeyes sol waibe, mins dj' a l' tåvleu da Steve Lampereur, ki dj' sai ramidrer. Dj' el metrè a fwait so les fyis po tertos.
Dji wåde li [C71] Léonard, Lucien, (Vocabulaire des Wallons du Wisconsin) Les Cahiers Wallons, 1975, 3 & 4, ca låvå, c' est ene ortografeye Feller.
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Li ci ki n' a k' on toû n' vike k' on djoû. |
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Vos n' poloz nén enonder des noveas sudjets dins ç' forom ci
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