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Berdelaedjes Forom di berdelaedjes e walon, so tot l' minme ké sudjet
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Vey sudjet di dvant :: Vey sudjet shuvant |
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slampereur
Date d' arivêye: 2023-06-05 Messaedjes: 10 Eplaeçmint: Wisconsin
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Date: sem 29 djl, 2023 3:43:03 Sudjet: Examples of dialect differences? |
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Recently someone here in Wisconsin discovered this site:
https://www.loecsen.com/en/learn-walloon
I was quick to note that this represents the Liege area/ Eastern dialect.
Natually, people asked how that differs from the Central dialect. Are there examples (ideally recordings) of the differences anywhere that I could point people to? |
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Rivni al copete |
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Èl-Gueuye-Noere
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Date d' arivêye: 2019-05-13 Messaedjes: 186 Eplaeçmint: Tchålerwè
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Date: sem 29 djl, 2023 16:06:47 Sudjet: Re: Examples of dialect differences? |
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slampereur scrijha: |
Recently someone here in Wisconsin discovered this site:
https://www.loecsen.com/en/learn-walloon
I was quick to note that this represents the Liege area/ Eastern dialect.
Natually, people asked how that differs from the Central dialect. Are there examples (ideally recordings) of the differences anywhere that I could point people to? |
I don't speak the Central dialect, but the Western one. If you're interested, I can write all those sentences in my dialect, by means of, let's say, a "spontaneous phonological" spelling instead of using the rfondou spelling system.
The differences would, in fact, be more noticeable this way. _________________ El sopoirtance va djonde on si télmint hôt livea k' les sûteyès djins n' pôront pus sondjî a n' nén birer les bezéns. |
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Rivni al copete |
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Pablo Saratxaga Site Admin
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Date d' arivêye: 2005-07-01 Messaedjes: 1156 Eplaeçmint: Oûpêye
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Date: sem 29 djl, 2023 19:43:24 Sudjet: |
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I only did first page, but that looks verey good!
A modern (interactive) learning method was a big missing piece; I'm glad to see it starts to hapen.
Yes, it is in eastern dialect (the picture showing in the banner is actually the Meuse (Mouze) riverside in the city of Liege (Lidje), I recognized the place
As for the differences and equivalences (@Gueuye-Noere : dji pinse k' i dmande l' adire avou l' namurwès, paski c' est l' sôre di walon k' est djåzé e Wisonsene),
the writting is in "Feller" system, that notes quite troughly, the phonetic; which in your case doesn't help much, as it overemphasizes differences.
I think the best would be to start from a chart of the orthography of "rifondou", showing for each letter/group of letters that can have different values per dialect, the way it would be on each;
so you will then have the differences between Central and Eastern.
... however, after a quick search, I haven't found it in form of a chart (it sure exists, maybe someone will link to it).
So, here are some of the differences :
* the eastern writting "h" covers actually 4 things:
- rifondou "h" (not pronounced in central -- and as such often not written in Feller either)
- rifondou "jh" (pronounced "j" in central)
- rifondou "xh" (pronounced "ch" in central; xh is the unvoiced version of jh)
- rifondou "sch" (pronounced "sch" in central; sometimes in some words pronounced "sk" -- which is the western pronounciation)
* ending "-ê" is almost always rifondou "-ea" (pronounced "-ia" in central)
* a lot of "è" are what is written "ae" in rfondou (most often pronounced "a" in central); particularly the suffix "-èdje" ("-aedje" in rfondou; pronounced "-adje" in C)
* several "eû" are what is written "oe" in R (pronounced "wè" in C)
* "å" (written the same in R) is always pronounced like "ô" at Lidje ; in central is is also often "ô" (traditionally written "au"), but also some times "â"
* what is written "oen" in R is "on" (nazalized o) in E; but "win" (w+nazalized "e") in C. exemple "poenne" (sadness, sad/hurtful effort; fr:peine, es:pena) is "ponne" in E, and "pwinne" in C.
* what is written "oi" in R is "wè" in E and "wa" in C (same difference as with "ae"; the only thing is that "oi" has yet another pronouncition in western)
* préfix k(i)- in E, co- in central (eg: k(i)mincî vs comincî)
* participe/adjective ending -ou/-owe in E vs -u/-ûwe in C
* conjugation of 3d person plural (didn't show up in the sentences I looked at); eg: i volèt (E) vs i volnut (C) (=they want)
then there are also lexical diferences.
For example, the word given for "yes" is "awè"; while in C "oyi" is used instead.
And for the differences in the actual sentences...
Well, I'm quite surprized to see there ar eso few!!
There is a general "eastern-typed accent", but the actual phonemic differences are very few (in the sentences I looked at);
here are all the differences I can see until the sentence "Happy New Year"; that is for 24 sentences, :
* "awè" vs "oyi" (geographically prefered synonyms)
* "ponnes" vs "pwinnes" (dialectal phonetic difference)
* "acwérd" vs "acward"
* "kibén" vs "cobén"
* "disfindou" vs "disfindu"
* "wice" vs "eyou"/"ou" (I don't know exaclty which version is used in Wisonsin; the word "where") |
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slampereur
Date d' arivêye: 2023-06-05 Messaedjes: 10 Eplaeçmint: Wisconsin
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Date: lon 31 djl, 2023 21:59:05 Sudjet: |
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Thanks for the info. |
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Rivni al copete |
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Èl-Gueuye-Noere
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Date d' arivêye: 2019-05-13 Messaedjes: 186 Eplaeçmint: Tchålerwè
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Date: lon 31 djl, 2023 22:36:44 Sudjet: |
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Citåcion: |
- rifondou "sch" (pronounced "sch" in central; sometimes in some words pronounced "sk" -- which is the western pronounciation)
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Well, to be honest, there are exceptions concerning this pronunciation in the Western dialect. For instance, I pronounce the "sch" of the word "schoûter" like I do with the "xh" and "ch" combinations. However, I pronounce "aschoûter" the way you say. I have no idea why. _________________ El sopoirtance va djonde on si télmint hôt livea k' les sûteyès djins n' pôront pus sondjî a n' nén birer les bezéns. |
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Rivni al copete |
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Vos n' poloz nén enonder des noveas sudjets dins ç' forom ci Vos n' poloz nén responde a des sudjets k' i gn a dins ç' forom ci Vos n' poloz nén candjî vos messaedjes dins ç' forom ci Vos n' poloz nén disfacer vos messaedjes dins ç' forom ci Vos n' poloz nén vôter dins les ploncaedjes di ç' forom ci
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